Secret Life...

Sorry, but you can't really dispute what someone believes.
K rex, tell that to a person who got pregnant at 15. I DO understand the situation and I still do not think it is right. And if you look at the statistics, it's very low that an abortion happens as a result of rape. It usually is someones selfish reasons.
Unit, maybe you should get your facts straight. When almost every abortion happens after the babies heart is beating. It's only a cluster of cells for about 2 weeks, before you even know you're pregnant. And I don't think that because of what the baby is at that moment in time, but it has the potential to be something great. Might end up being a better person then the mom that carried it.
I don't know any men that believe in abortion. The only ones in my life that do, are boys, and they are teenagers. The real men stand up for their mistakes and deal with it.

Alright Rex, do you believe in partial birth abortion? It's funny that a baby isn't considered a baby until birth, yet in the bible it states that it is a child before and after it is conceived. It doesn't say that at birth it becomes a child. I don't believe in that stuff, but I do think it's an interesting statement.

Sorry, but you can't really dispute what someone believes.

That depends on the subject of the belief. For example there are people who believe we never landed on the moon. This is something that can be easily disputed since it's verifiable. while for example belief in the supernatural is something that can't be proven

K rex, tell that to a person who got pregnant at 15. I DO understand the
situation and I still do not think it is right.

I fail to see how you understand it

And if you look at the statistics, it's very low that an abortion
happens as a result of rape. It usually is someones selfish reasons.

As I said as long as the uterus is in the women it's her choice. Selfish or not

When almost every abortion happens after the babies heart is beating.

Despite what many disney movie tell us the heart is not really that special. It's like a kidney or a lung. The brain is what you really need to be a person

I don't know any men that believe in abortion. The only ones in my life
that do, are boys, and they are teenagers. The real men stand up for
their mistakes and deal with it.

Wait so what Unit and I are strangers to you? That's rude

Alright Rex, do you believe in partial birth abortion?

Depends on the reasons for them

It's funny that a baby isn't considered a baby until birth, yet in the
bible it states that it is a child before and after it is conceived.

Actually that''s debatable. The church went through quite a few phases on the issue. For example there were The Apostolic Constitutions and St. Augistine with the thoughts on fetus inanimatus. Then there was the quickening thing and so on. So yes while now it's technically considered ensouled on entry this wasn't always so and thus it would be false to say that's there is a definitive religious answer answer considering the change in stances throughout the centuries

Fun fact. The majority of rape cases go unreported. Statistics don't mean a thing. Same with studies, many have a shitload of confounds that pretty much make the study mean nothing. Be careful with studies and statistics when using them to prove a point.

Sure you can. Especially when its grounded in fact and science.

No you can't understand their situation, simply because its a unique experience for everyone. Humans are different. We react differently to different things. Because one person can deal with it in a similar fashion as you, doesn't mean someone else can.

Having an abortion within the first 9 weeks or so is actually the same as if it were a Spontaneous Abortion.

I would also like to point out that not all rapes are reported. Women often feel ashamed afterwards. That it was their fault that they could have done something. It doesn't help that our mind cannot control our body's physical reaction to sexual stimulus.

Because not all rapes are reported, there is no hard way to conclude how accurate those statistics are.

Also did you just pull up the 'It has the potential to be a great person.' card? Where do I begin?

Hitler used to be a baby.
Stalin used to be a baby(he was even worse then Hitler)
Kim Jong Il was once a baby.
Timothy McVeigh(Oklahoma City Bomber)
Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold(Columbine Shooters)
Charles Carl Roberts(took hostage and killed 5 Amish girls.)
Seung-Hui Cho(Virginia Tech Shooting, killing 32 and wounding more)
Osama Bin Laden

Now for the more regular scum of the earth.

Lee Boyd Malvo
2. Eric Smith
3. Melinda Loveless, Laurie Tackett, Toni Lawrence, Hope Rippey
4. Sam Manzies
5. Kip Kinkel
6. Houston Slicker
7. Alec Kreider
8. Seek and Alex King
9.Sarah Johnson
10. Andy Williams
11. Daniel Petric
12. Joshua Phillips
13. Cody Posey
14.Rod Ferrell, Scott Anderson, Charity Keesee, Heather Windorf, Dana Cooper
15. Luke Woodham
(this list should be accurate)

Each of these names represent a killer. They were your average kids dealing with teen life. But guess what happened? They all killed someone. Some far more brutally then others. They were on a program called To Young To Kill: 15 Shocking Crimes.

You can't bring up the 'Great Potential' they may have. Without also bringing up 'They might be the next Ted Bundy' Take a look at the American Prison system. The kid becoming a criminal isn't some unlikely scenario.

You assume that guys only support abortion because they are cowards trying to avoid parenthood. That they don't want to take responsibility. No, you have it wrong.

A REAL man, would realize that its not up to him what his girlfriend does. Its not up to him whether or not some stranger can get one or not. A REAL man, knows that he has no say in the reproductive rights. That Woman are the ONLY ones who can make that choice for themselves.

No Man, should EVER be able to tell a woman what to do in this situation. If its his girlfriend/wife. Then he does have the right to talk to her about it and tell her that he will help support her and the kid. However he must recognize that ultimately it is her choice.

Because last I checked, this is the 21st Century and Woman should be able to NOT be controlled by a man in this way,

Unit7 wrote:
I would also like to point out that not all rapes are reported. Women often feel ashamed afterwards. That it was their fault that they could have done something. It doesn't help that our mind cannot control our body's physical reaction to sexual stimulus.

Also, many are scared shitless that their attacker will come back and kill them or a loved one. They don't think the cops will believe them. They're humiliated, going through a rape kit and exam, complete with photos- I'm sure that isn't a cup of tea. They're in denial. But yeah, a rather astounding amount of rape/sexual assault is never reported.

Courtnut wrote:Maybe because I'm not like you guys, so bent on proving someone wrong that I'm going to go out of my way to research it. Because it's not going to change my opinion.
Pro choice to me means they chose to open their legs. Knowing what could happen. No baby should be ripped apart and have their brain sucked out or be poisoned to death just for a womans dumb choice.

That's just about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I respect that you are pro life, but not being willing to research your views and give well thought out arguments based on supporting facts is just ridiculous no matter what you are talking about, from abortion to how to pick the best cantaloupes.

You can't just call someone wrong because you want them to be. You have to support why you think they are wrong with solid facts. I'm not trying to hurt your feelings, but it's the truth. Opinions aren't something that are automatically valuable just because you made them like macaroni art on the fridge. In debate opinions don't matter unless they are well researched, thought out, and supported.

Wow you guys just don't understand. I said people are allowed to be pro-choice, that is just not something I am going to be. And I have said a million times my opinion is not fact, that is just what I think.
Like I said, I'm not so bent on proving someone wrong that I'm going to do that. I looked at the articles, and they are biased. He is only researching the things to prove me wrong. Not what is the actual truth. So don't assume what he is saying is true either.

I've seen that show before. What does that have to do with anything? I know rapes can't be reported. Police can't be trusted, I have firsthand experience in that. And the pictures they take aren't bad.
Basically you are saying, no babies should be born because they might turn into a killer?
Fact, most people AREN'T killers. That's not an opinion, that's fact.

Courtnut wrote:Wow you guys just don't understand. I said people are allowed to be pro-choice, that is just not something I am going to be. And I have said a million times my opinion is not fact, that is just what I think.
Like I said, I'm not so bent on proving someone wrong that I'm going to do that. I looked at the articles, and they are biased. He is only researching the things to prove me wrong. Not what is the actual truth. So don't assume what he is saying is true either.

I'm not saying you have to be pro choice, or pro anything. I'm saying that no matter what your views are on any subject, not just abortion, it's irresponsible to base you opinions in anything but fact.

Researching what you believe isn't about proving someone wrong, it's about you being able to form the most responsible opinions you can based on the information available. If his articles are biased, that's fine. I don't like researching in secondary sources anyway. They're usually biased. So instead of just saying "I believe it so that makes it right" go out and do your own research in primary, peer-reviewed articles.

I'm not trying to change your opinions on abortion, or anything else. What I'm talking about is gathering as many facts as you can from primary literature sources and forming intelligent, well thought out opinions that you can defend.

If you do that, then I don't really care whether I agree with your opinions or not. As long as I know you arrived at your beliefs intelligently, I'll respect your opinions regardless of whether I agree or not.

Courtnut wrote:Wow you guys just don't understand. I said people are allowed to be pro-choice, that is just not something I am going to be. And I have said a million times my opinion is not fact, that is just what I think.
Like I said, I'm not so bent on proving someone wrong that I'm going to do that. I looked at the articles, and they are biased. He is only researching the things to prove me wrong. Not what is the actual truth. So don't assume what he is saying is true either.

Biased why? Because you don't agree with them. I don't just google up 'studies proving courtnut is wrong' I simply google 'Infirtility and Abortion' I then go through several sites and I read them. I then switch over to a different site and read that. If I can find an agreement amongst all the sites then I don't bother to even use that. However if the information comes up repeatedly, then I use it. I then select the site that shows the information best.

Now. Again. This is the part where YOU have to try and prove my articles are biased. Now quit saying it is, and prove it is.

I am not bent on proving anyone wrong. I am just trying to stop you from being a complete idiot and get you to actually research your stuff before you go on about facts that you 'believe in' with out any proof.

I've seen that show before. What does that have to do with anything? I know rapes can't be reported. Police can't be trusted, I have firsthand experience in that. And the pictures they take aren't bad.
Basically you are saying, no babies should be born because they might turn into a killer?
Fact, most people AREN'T killers. That's not an opinion, that's fact.

Of course rapes can be reported, they are reported all the time. The point is that not all rapes are reported. So its hard to know the truth of how many pregnancies/abortions are the result of rapes. Also what does trusting the police have anything to do with it?

No. Thats not what I am saying. You pulled the 'They could be great people!' card. I was showing you WHY it was pointless. Just as easily as the kid could turn out to be someone great, they could just as easily turn out to be a killer. History has shown as time and time again that this is more then true. We can't see into the future, so therefor we shouldn't bring up the 'what if' of it all.

The show was just a means to get a list of names of teens committing horrible crimes. Some of them are barely even teenagers.

So has anyone been watching secret life? Im sorta liking this season now. I wasnt sure when all the ricky and ashley stuff was going on, and i wasnt sure of how they were going to play out the adrian ben thing. I knew she was going to keep the baby though.

But to be honest the show has gotten a lot better. I mean its still a little rough in some episodes but i think the acting the writing the whole thing over all is better then the other seasons. And if it gets picked up again i think it will just get better. Last weeks episode really surprised me though. I was really happy on how they ended it.

I loved how amy reacted, she had every right to. I like how anne talked to ashley about ricky, that was great. Shes a good mom. Bens dad is awesome making him go to new york and tell amy to her face. Bens been acting like such a child about all this. The episode was good, im actually looking forward to see how the rest of the season plays out.

I was looking at some spoilers and it says that adrian goes in for an emergency exam.. i wonder what that will turn out. I really hope they didnt make everyone go through all this ben and adrian stuff for no reason. I hope she doesnt lose the baby. I dont think she will though cause in another spoiler it says how they go and find out the baby's gender. So i doubt it.

What do you all think? Has it gotten better or worse or stayed the same.
And as long as they dont put ricky and ashley together as a couple ill still be a fan of the show. lol

Last weeks episode was great. I love how Amy reacted when Ben told her about Adrian being pregnant. And I did feel bad for Ricky's mom (Nora) in this episdoe. This episdoe was my favorite.

nicole519 wrote:So has anyone been watching secret life? Im sorta liking this season now. I wasnt sure when all the ricky and ashley stuff was going on, and i wasnt sure of how they were going to play out the adrian ben thing. I knew she was going to keep the baby though.

I've been watching it. And it is amazing so far.
Me too. I had a feeling that she would chicken out like Amy did when she said she was going to get an abortion. And im glad that Adrian chose to have the baby.

I was looking at some spoilers and it says that adrian goes in for an emergency exam.. i wonder what that will turn out. I really hope they didnt make everyone go through all this ben and adrian stuff for no reason. I hope she doesnt lose the baby. I dont think she will though cause in another spoiler it says how they go and find out the baby's gender. So i doubt it.

I read that too, but i don't think that anything major will happen though.

What do you all think? Has it gotten better or worse or stayed the same.
And as long as they dont put ricky and ashley together as a couple ill still be a fan of the show. lol

I think it's gotten better. lol. I actually thought the Ricky and ashley stuff was interesting to the show, but i hope that its over.

nicole519 wrote:

I loved how amy reacted, she had every right to. I like how anne talked to ashley about ricky, that was great. Shes a good mom. Bens dad is awesome making him go to new york and tell amy to her face. Bens been acting like such a child about all this. The episode was good, im actually looking forward to see how the rest of the season plays out.

I like the way she reacted as well. What did Ben expect? For her to say "Oh, no biggie." and go back to smooching him? He's such a self centered little snot.

nicole519 wrote:
I was looking at some spoilers and it says that adrian goes in for an emergency exam.. i wonder what that will turn out. I really hope they didnt make everyone go through all this ben and adrian stuff for no reason. I hope she doesnt lose the baby. I dont think she will though cause in another spoiler it says how they go and find out the baby's gender. So i doubt it.

My guess is that she'll end up with a miscarriage, that's what I'm hoping for anyway. It's something they haven't done anything with yet, it would make the show interesting. Amy's pregnancy went smoothly and she had a healthy baby, they should show what else could happen. A depression following it, anger, guilt, etc.

Looks like now I have an actual reason to check the show. One of the actresses got seriously naked. I mean hardcore naked. If you want to see everything from Renee Olstead who is suppose to play someone named Madison go here. This is seriously hardcore NSFW. You have been warned

http://deepatseaparadise.wordpress.com/2011/03/14/renee-olstead-leaked-private-pictures-x20/

The link didn't show. I personally think she was way prettier in Still Standing. Love that show.

^Good. You don't need to see them. They're not just plain old nudy pics, and I'll leave it at that.

Courtnut wrote:The link didn't show. I personally think she was way prettier in Still Standing. Love that show.

Here is another one http://egotastic.com/entertainment/celebrities/renee-olstead/secret-ginger-crush-madness-purported-renee-olstead-nekkid-and-naughty-pictures-leaked-007405

Keep in my mind that as Hannah said those are hardcore